Season 1, Episode 6: IHCA Member Moments: Andy Niska, Love In Home Senior Care

Episode 5: IHCA Member Moments: Andy Niska, Love In Home Senior Care

IHCA Member Moments: Independent Home Care Company Owners Educating, Encouraging, and Empowering Their Peers. 

Love In Home Senior Care's mission is to ensure a better quality of life for their elderly clients and their families by providing dependable and affordable care.” They have a vision of creating a compassionate service for seniors and their loved ones when the consideration for personal and companionship care is needed.

Love In Home Senior Care feels strongly the importance to educate people on what care choice is the best fit for the senior and their family while attempting to create an opportunity for an informed decision for everyone involved.

This decision-making process should be smooth and stress free for everyone, including all family members and their loved ones. Having access to people with experience (like the team at Love In Home Senior Care) to assist you along the way can help this process. With an extensive background in health care, their team has the experience needed to guide and direct your loved one to the choice that is the best fit.

Transcript

Unknown: 0:01

Good afternoon, everyone. My name is Sarah Barker with the independent homecare Alliance. And today I have Andy Niska, the CEO of love in home senior care with me. Thank you so much for being with us today. Andy on member moments. Well, it's good to be here. I appreciate the invitation and look forward to this conversation. Absolutely. So let's start with some basic questions. What geographic territories does love in home senior care cover? We cover the far eastern parts of Washington State. So our main hub is Spokane, Washington. And that's where the majority of the business happens and majority of our caregivers live. Wonderful. And when did you open your agency? How long have you been in operation? We opened in January of 2013. So we're completing your number eight. And you can consider yourself a veteran in the industry for sure. I'll take whatever I can get. So what what did you do to prior prior to homecare, and what made you decide to open a caregiving agency? Well, thanks for the question I, I got a degree in home in healthcare administration was a was my degree, which took me into clinical care settings. So I right out of college went to work at an HMO and I was a clinical manager. And in that short process, time, in my career, early on in my career, I could see that it wasn't very fulfilling, and it wasn't going to the top was pretty close. And I just didn't think it was gonna be enough. And interestingly, what would come into the clinic that I never knew existed was these fine individuals called pharmaceutical sales reps. And they were always looking for someone to talk to in the clinic, and preferably a prescriber, but that wasn't always available. And I'd be sitting my office and I was open to him, you know, listening to him and connecting with them. So I learned about pharmaceutical sales, so much that I was tempted, I was tempted to leave office job that wasn't very fulfilling, and see how I could do in pharmaceutical sales. And what year was this? Andy? Oh, that was I left, start my pharmaceutical sales career in 1997. Don't do the math in your head right now. I was asking, because I had heard that over the course of the years, you know, used to be this very, very attractive career and not saying that it's not anymore, but it's certainly gone through significant changes over the years. It is less fulfilling, in that there's access issues to what you can do and who you can call on how frequently you can call on them. And so it's gone through some changes, I'll tell you the career was was fine for us, like our family did very well. And, and I can even see that there was if I just woke up, washed, rinsed and repeated that I would have a fine retirement, you know, the career was was going to provide well, that retirement was all kind of set up and going along. But I'm in my at the time that I decided to leave that career and go into senior care, home care specifically was in my mid 40s. And so I I had gotten to where I wasn't very fulfilled, and a little too tedious, kind of like homecare does sometimes but least it's different than what I was doing at the time. So was there a triggering event that made you decide to start a homecare agency? Or was it a process of deciding you wanted to start your own business and analyzing what might be the best option and you landed on home care? Well, I you know, it's interesting, I do not come from a family of entrepreneurs, I can't look to my past can't look to even my in laws and say, you know, here's somebody I want to lean on and and get the right motivation and in spirit and courage to take on the risk of opening a business. So I was gonna be a pioneer. And but the the question of triggering, there was a trigger. And partly it was what I said earlier, it was less fulfilling the career that I was in, and tough to wake up and get out of the car and make another call on a dock. And then there was an event that was significant that I worked for a small biotech firm at the time, and had been with them for quite a while, nine years and they had been an attorney Active merger opportunity from a bigger company. So bigger companies were constantly, you know, trying to merge, they wanted our products, they wanted our, you know, intelligence. And, and that's just that's how corporate world is get bigger by grabbing smaller companies and adding them to your portfolio. And so that had been going on and I never really thought much about it because we had a high stock price and it never looked like it was going to happen. But one time it did happen. And it actually was a hostile takeover. It wasn't one that was a merger of agreements. And it was a hostile takeover. And they really didn't want a lot of the Salesforce, they did, they didn't want a lot of administrative. They just wanted the products. That happened. And they didn't meet a rep in Spokane, Washington, where I lived in was repping. They had already people and so I got a very good severance, there was a year's worth of pay. I was able to buy the car that is driving just interesting because as a pharmaceutical sales rep. You know, it's it's there's a car. So if you lose your job, you're down a car, and you're home, you know, you're just a lot of things, the premiums on my medical insurance for my entire family, I had no premiums that year of the severance, so free health care, a year's worth of pay, you know, cheaper car to buy and, and I had got a job within three days of even before my job ended, because they tell you, first of November that your job is going to end at the end of the year job before Christmas. And so it ended right because they became acquired, taken over. Right. So you had your severance package. So it sounds like you didn't go directly from this experience into starting a homecare company, you had accepted a job three days later. So where was the transition to deciding to start a home care company? Well, so it probably the the thoughts started to happen within maybe 10 months of that event? Because I started to question the security of any job. And, and if I was less fulfilled, I you know, there is no security and I had been very successful in the company that I was with, but that had nothing to it made no measurement on who stayed with that takeover. And so, I, the company I went to was even worse than the one that got taken over like I you know, of course, you're gonna take whatever job you can get. And I quickly got a job and thought I work this and I didn't like the travel, there was a lot of things that just I didn't like the culture of the company. And I just started really considering is this what I'm going to do. And so that's a triggering event to answer the question, and then it led to exploring and talking with other people. And and so then I took a good six months of investigation into homecare specifically. And looking at the 2010 census, this was 2012 at the vet that that year. And so in 2010, I looked at that census and for my area, meaning Spokane area, Eastern Washington. And it was pretty clear to me that if you did anything, service or products that touched the elderly community, there was going to be a good market going forward. So they refer to it as the silver tsunami. Right. And we were just having this discussion last week at the alliance that the wave is building, right? We're just starting to see the upswing of it. I am curious, you keep mentioning this word of needing to feel fulfilled. What is it about homecare, that is giving you this sense of fulfillment, especially over the almost last two years where homecare has always been a difficult industry, right? And even more so the last couple of years. So So what is it that you find fulfilling about it? I'll probably say I boil it down to two things. Number one is there are families with elderly loved ones that need answers. They need solutions to the challenges that they're facing. And my career has been, you know, a features of benefits and finding out needs and providing solutions. It just kind of goes with sales. And so it's been so rewarding to sit down with a family and see their gratitude and their appreciation for the fact that I'm going to provide a service that's just going to help relieve the stresses and worries that are going on. And you know, and so to talk about safety and to talk about what we can do for them, it is fulfilling and I see that and I love that reward. And I think it's not talked about enough, which is caregiving homecare, right? Of course the services are being delivered to the aging loved one, right. But Home Care is a service that benefits everyone in that family, right? Because through providing safety, care around the activities of daily living, we're also though providing relief for that family member a sense of peace of mind, right? clear direction. And so that way they can focus on what their actual familiar relationship is with their aging loved one. So I like to talk about that a lot about how homecare is a solution for the whole family. Absolutely. And that is fulfilling, it's fulfilling to be in the role. And there's time, you know, I've been at this now for eight plus years. And so I've seen the resourcefulness that I can provide. And and I don't do all the assessments. So but but I have tried to pass on those that work for a company that that are in that role of sitting in the living room and saying, Here's what we can do, and have you thought about this, even that's not something we do, we can refer you to some people that are really going to be good in helping you solve these problems, too. And it's just it is fulfilling, really take the approach of looking at the whole picture, right, not just having tunnel vision and only thinking about what your service is, right? You're looking at everything that that family might need to support them with their loved one. So you are obviously you know, we're here today, independent homecare Alliance member moments, thank you for being a member of our organization. So you're an independent non franchise caregiving agency, what made you decide to choose to be independent versus buying into a franchise model? Well, I, I did what we called at the time discovery days with about three different franchises. And, but there were a target of about six franchises that I asked them to send me the stuff and let me look through it. And, and I kind of thought that I might be going with with one of them. And my wife talked me out of it, which is kind of funny. And, and she, which was good, because she needed like, say, Andy, you can do this, like I support you, we're going to get through this. And yes, it might be easier with a franchise for the first year or two. But I just, you know, she didn't look deep into it. But But I told her enough of what I had been learning. And there is a temptation with a franchise, when you're brand new, to look at all the services that's gonna benefit you. But if you're having a foresight, and you can realize that after a year or two, there's not a lot of value to it. And, and you're you will have seen and solved the problems. And in fact, you will be, you know, adding to the experience that the franchise can offer, because you're solving problems that they probably haven't solved for years, and you're telling them how to do it in today's world. You know, and I, you know, I've seen that I talked with a few friends that had been in franchises, and they're great for a year or two. And so that was ultimately in the group purchasing power, which is one of the things right through the independent homecare Alliance, which is let's level the playing field when it comes to access to services at a reasonable rate, right, so at the rate that the franchise owners receive, to run their businesses, that's part of you know, the benefits of being a member of the independent homecare Alliance. I see exactly what you're explaining, right, having that sort of built in infrastructure for the first year or two can make sense. But after that, right, you're kind of running. And so it becomes the benefit is really that that group purchasing power. What I like about the independence is that you guys can make decisions much more quickly, it seems, and you get to truly be in control of your culture, right? In which direction you want to go. So how would you describe your culture at love in home senior care? And what do you do to maintain that culture? I would say that we want to be a premier company in our community. And and so we want to be that known that as to our consumers, we're providing exceptional care that they can trust and then to our employees, that this is a exceptional, desirable place to work. And so those two run together and we make no you know that It's super clear for everybody the management level the executive staff, that we're only as good as our next caregiver. And, and so we need to take care of our people that are in the field working and and be the right support to them. And and then be the right mentor and trainer to them so that they can be successful. So that it makes it so easy to offer our services to the not only the consumers, but our referral sources as this is what they can, they can trust and expect to have happen. And so I'll put up and I say this often when I'm in referral sources or with when I'm in a living room, that because there's this feeling like, tell me about who your caregivers are. And if you got a really good caregiver, they're gonna go with you. And you know, and I have to explain to the family that that's I understand that desire, and it's, it's well placed. But any caregiver you have today may not be your caregiver tomorrow only because we can't predict where their life's gonna go. And so you really need to put more trust in the faces that you're going to communicate with about your care. So it starts here with me and your home. Or if I'm talking to referral source, you know, you can look to me and and evaluate, is this a trustworthy company and individual that you want to place? You know, someone, allow them to play someone in your home? Right, they're trusting you to make a good decision on their behalf as to who your staffing in the home. Right? And I would say tell me if you feel this is an accurate statement, right? In homecare, there's actually three different clients, right, you've got your internal clients, which are your care staff, and administrative staff, you also have your external clients, which are your referral sources, right, because you need to bring them on board with sending their clients and patients to you. And then your other bucket of external clients are your actual clients that are receiving services. And so it's really important to make sure that there's a concerted focus on all three of those because they're all so interconnected to the success of an agency. Absolutely, I agree with that completely. And we, we try to place a lot of effort on it's hard when you have a field, I'll call it field, because that's from my past career, a field workforce, to make them feel like they're in a family, a community, which is your company that you work for, that really does care for you and supports you and is there for you. And, you know, it's beautiful that we can text shifts out to people, and they can accept them and show up and you know, it's beautiful the the electronics, but it also can be impersonal, and be we're not in touch with our people when they might need us. And we were in this electronic world that takes care of all the scheduling and make sure everybody shows up where they're supposed to. And so we have to fight that. And we need to be really focused on making sure that we are connecting with them. And we do things, appreciation events and stuff that we think help build that culture. So they understand what we expect as a company when it comes to culture, not just here's your job, and here's how you're supposed to do it. But just, you know why we think it's special to work for our so when you're so you're talking about you, you do these appreciation events, and you know, building this culture in your agency, if you don't mind sharing with the audience, right? So at your agency love in home Senior Care, is this something that as you know, where you're planning for 2022? Is that something that you will plan out for all of 2020 you make, you know, when you're having those events, you know, when you're doing other initiatives that are going to build the culture? Have your care professionals feeling appreciated? Yes. So we have, we've been having them quarterly, and sometimes, I mean, COVID made it harder and and so sometimes it's been three and a year, let's just say there's always a Christmas, you know, event and but we've done game show related activities, and we give them prizes and reward them and of course, we always recognize exceptional, you know, players and try to give them the right attention and that happens throughout the year. And then extra highlights of those people and what they've done will happen at the appreciation events, but we you know, we have to like create enough of an event that they're going to want to come okay cuz you they want to come to their you can offer caregivers jobs, they won't come to their orientation. You know, I mean, it's it's tough and so we're always attacked that and when you start to build something and people have been to it and they see and they can feel it, and they know that you care about them, then it's then they come to future events. And you can really start to create and broaden this this culture and experience. Do you feel like it's because there's more of the focus on not like, Okay, well, we know we have to do this. So let's do this event. So they feel appreciated. Versus, we really want to do this, because let's create those family like connections, where we're developing these friendships now, even though it's like employer employee relationship, but really, it is this family type of culture. So it's, rather than looking at it, like they're going to some corporate company event, it's like you're going to a family barbecue type of vibe and atmosphere. Do you think there's a difference between the two and how you roll these events? Yes. I mean, even the fact that we put the word love and have a heart in our logo, you know, we leverage that, and it's purposeful, and we want it to be, and, and so it just, it takes effort and what was so we really want them to know that. And that it's a full picture. It's not just like, three events a year or four events a year it is, is it the right pay? Is it promotional opportunities that are just so much that is involved with that, and then of course, is daily, like, if you're a new employee, you know, we're going to mentor you, because we want you to feel like you're supported that you're not just given some shift to go show up to and nobody you've even met before and, and accompany you don't even, you know, this is your first second day, because you may went through orientation and training, but it's your second day. And, and and yes, you probably had experienced in the past, but it's still just how can we make that go? Well, for you? So you mentioned mentor? Is that? Do you have a mentorship program built into your agency? Yes, yes. And it's, it varies by based upon the need. So if somebody is brand new to the industry, then the Mentoring can be more, if it's somebody that has a lot of veteran experience than the mentoring just going to be we want you to know, how a shift should look, especially when it's your first introduction, you know, how that can go smoothly based upon what our standards and what our culture is. And so, let us show you, you know, let us work with you on that. Let us and, and, and then for, you know, selfishly, for our recruitment staff in our scheduling, you know, care management staff, they get to see how somebody performs in the home, that's going to help them when it comes to matching clients up with caregivers and and you know, and it might be, well, this person is more of an introvert, so it's gonna be harder for them, in this case, or the more of an extrovert, and this client's not going to like them. I love the fact that you brought that up, because when I've done the intakes with families, that's a question that I always asked, Do you feel your loved one would prefer somebody that's more on the introverted side or more on the extroverted side. And you're the only other person that I've ever heard mentioned that as a as an area to focus on, I think that it's very important, because if you have a client that really just has the care professional there for the ADLs, but really doesn't want to socialize, if you have an extroverted caregiver, that's not going to work out very well. And vice versa, if somebody needs to be more engaged in the communication, so looking at those very fine details when making that match is really important. So that's exciting that you guys are doing that. Back to this mentorship program. Is this something where so when you're recruiting caregivers, right, I'm sure you that's part of the attraction, you tell them you have this program, you're teeing them up for success? Is this something that you also leverage when you're building relationships with referral partners in the community, or when you're on a consultation with a family saying, here's our process for our caregivers, I think there's an opportunity to leverage it, I'd have to ask my marketer kind of how she leverages it, but I can see that the opportunity exists for that. I can tell you in the home, there's a point where, you know, the assessments done the schedule is decided upon, you know, all your wrapping it up and matching the right caregivers kind of part of that discussion at the end. And there's anxiety around it. And so, um, I always would tell them, you know, a caregiver is going to show up, we're going to call you once we get back to the office and let you know that caregiver is before your shift starts. So it's next week, and we'll know who the name of the person is. But there will be two people coming to the door for that first shift and that's for you to also connect with someone From the management staff, because you might be talking with them for scheduling and making changes and, and so there's some good purpose to that. And, and this will be a person that we want you to rely upon, we actually want you to let us know if this is the right caregiver. And so it's gonna be easier for you to do that, you know, and so we, you know, we were gonna do our best, but you will be the one that decides how, how you want this to work, and if it's the right caregiver or not. And so, if you connect with someone from the management staff, it'll be easier for you, you know who you're talking to. It's it's a warm handoff, Andy and so have you guys tracked or seen that to be effective? You know, there's some agencies that I know that do that right, first shift, there's that warm introduction, other agencies do not so for the agencies that are not doing that write the introduction at the first shift. And maybe they're thinking I just don't have the capacity, I don't have the set, I don't have the time. What would you say to them? Do you feel like it's worth increasing the capacity to be able to do that? Or do they have to grow to a certain point? I mean, what is the solution there because I active and have you got, like you feel like it's effective. I think that there is amount of growth that makes it easier. Sure. If you're brand new, and you know, and you're totally with 250 hours a week, and you're just kind of like, this is all we can do, you know, until we get more staff, I get that. So I can't really I mean, I could say easily by 500 hours a week, you should be able to, you know, have the leverage to to go and make that because the handoff doesn't have to take long. It's nice. It's a true mentoring situation, and someone's gonna stay there for a couple hours. And usually, you know, it's, it's really important with a brand new caregiver translate into a better delivery of service, higher retention of clients, you know, happiness factor on both the client and carriers. Yeah, here's what I'll say. I mean, you know, any of us that have been doing this long enough, we realize that there will be unexpected customer service failures, okay. And it's sad, but it's like, someone's gonna get stuck in the snow. Okay, and they're not going to make it to their ship on time, or even make it to the ship that day. Okay, well, so how do you solve them, because it's, it's a traumatic event, it's anxiety for the person expecting the caregiver to come. And, and if, if you are, as a management team in the home, more often than just let set up your care, and I'll sign the caregiver. And until you stop, stop being our, our client, then we're going to presume everything's gonna go great. You know, that's kind of the model that you work in, when those customer service failures happen, because they're gonna inevitably happen. It's just, it's good if you can lose the client. It's a human centric business. So things are about to happen. And it's all how we respond to things that happen, how we remedy the situation. So this mentorship program, it sounds like this warm handoff right on the first shift is part of that. Are there any other elements of this mentorship program that you feel comfortable sharing, and oh, so I'll say this, we're all struggling to find more caregivers. So we can actually accept all the clients that are knocking on our door, like, you know, and if you're a brand new agency, just realize you just have to grind through your first year or two. And then there'll be more clients and you can find caregivers for if you're struggling today, you just have to get through your first year or two. And it's going to happen. I mean, it's the demand is so great, but I can't see it failing. But um, the mentorship can be really important when you're taking the risk of hiring somebody that you're not exactly sure if they're the right, quality of caregiver that you expect. But you haven't hired somebody in a week or two, because you haven't seen anybody and you're like, they're close enough. But I'm not sure. Well, guess what that person's gonna be mentored? Well, it's true that you can teach people sometimes, like in all aspects of life, sometimes people just need someone to take a chance on them, right? And then and then teach them mentor them, right. So that way they can rise to that level. So I love the fact that you're thinking about it that way. Now, of course, we're not saying you know, dismiss anything where they're not passing a background check. That's not what we're saying. Right? I mean, they're that person who maybe, you know, meets all of the standard criteria, but let's say doesn't have extensive experience maybe, or what have you, but you can even be that they're missing a tooth. I just say that, but it's like, they're missing a tooth. And I'm afraid when they smile that it's for our clients, you know, and you're like, this person's gonna be hard to place because we need to get that tooth fixed, but they're never gonna get it fixed in. And I really feel like I'm, you know, picking on somebody or something, but I'm just throwing it out there because it popped in my head. But that's like, where you're just not sure. And yet, I mean, that wouldn't be that wouldn't be so much. Well, I get what you're saying, but they could be in the world. So let's take tattoos for an example. Right? Everyone just take tattoos? Maybe they've got a tattoo on the forearm, does that mean that they're not going to be a good caregiver? Not necessarily, right. So it's more of that mentoring, hey, this particular client, it may, it could be a sticking point where long sleeves right mentoring situation, or if there's somebody that background check, and everything is good, but you're just not, there was just an element of I'm not really sure, like, this isn't been the ringing endorsement of this is gonna be a great character. And I can't wait to place this person because they're going to make people happy. But yet, everything else just checks. It's just not the obvious, you know, case. And so, because you have a little bit more, I mean, some people would say, well go to Facebook, which I agree that there's some ways now with social media to kind of look at some people's lives and see, like, is there a reason why I'm feeling not completely sold? And, and so you can do some of that, but then ultimately, I just say, that's what I'm gonna want a mentor, we're gonna want to spend a few ships with them. And, and hopefully, we get sold. But if we don't get sold, well, let's cut our losses, you know. So we, I mean, we all know, recruiting care staff retaining care staff has been the focus for almost two years now. You know, it's been a struggle. Is there anything unique that you guys have been doing that's helped you cope with it? Right, and keep going? Yeah, I don't, I think we've tried everything. And we continue to try even today, you know, we put up our sandwich boards, we have a sandwich board sign, we have a couple of them that say, hiring today, you know, run over here as fast as you can. And we put up in different places they get stolen and stuff. And so I get a text this morning. Hey, did you? Did you bring that sign in yesterday? And because we can't find it? Well, somebody just kicked it over. And it was still close to where it was placed. But I mean, I'm only saying that we've done radio commercials, and the radio, you know, companies are always trying to buy your ads. And you know, and I don't recommend it. But anyway, you know, I just tell them, I don't need more business, I need more caregivers as well, that will do radio ads for for, you know, recruitment, data, like everything, and we continue to do a lot of stuff and just plug away. Unique is your question. And, and I don't think this is unique, but our recruiter taught at the community college caregiving classes, because we form relationships with instructors, we form relationships with the classes, mainly just say, Hey, can we come in and tell them what their what their careers going to look like? Because that might give us some opportunity to convince them to come work for us. So we did some stuff like that. And then, you know, our recruiter was well accepted by the head of that department and said, Look, you know, we could use another ad hoc teacher and and you could do classes on Tuesday nights, and they got all certified, and she doing class on Tuesday nights, and there's some, I guess, that might be kind of unique. And we have been able to, you know, grab some of the cream of the crop of certain classes, because of those relationships we built. That's important, but I don't think that's unique, too much. But what about on the side of retention? Is there anything specific that you guys have chosen to implement, to retain the caregivers that you do hire? I'll tell you what we've done. And I can't I mean, I think our retention numbers are pretty good. So the mentoring we is an element of true improve of retention. So is the appreciation events and, and and activities and sometimes, like, we had our appreciation, you know, effort that wasn't a meeting and show up it was we're going to you with a a pamphlet, you know, there's all women in my office, I've got only guy so just I don't know the words to use, but, you know, it was like how to do your nail. It was like a kit for doing your nails and makeup and everything and it was all about self care, we'll call the self care kit. Self Care, I like that. Okay. And you know, and that was delivered to them while they're on their shifts. And we also delivered to our clients a similar package. So, two deliveries. We just made sure we got everybody. So there's things like that we do that we're actually saying we're gonna spend this money, because it's retention and it's money well spent, like we don't count the pennies, it's important to do enough of that. So we're going to do that. I think that's great, because what you just described, right one for the care professional one for the client, but that then can turn into an activity that maybe they do together, you know, to create that engagement and a higher delivery of service, we have a comment. Roberts, so he's he is our supervisor of people and culture at the independent homecare life. So he said, some of my greatest hires have been people that I've taken a chance on, I think that when doing that it is important to be transparent, and let the candidate know that a chance is being taken on them. But you're moving forward, because there's something there that I believe in. I love that comment. Yeah, no, I love it. And I see the value of that. And I love the last sentence, because, you know, think of what it is to start a new job. It's a signature thing in your life, this is a signature event, and and it shouldn't be taken lightly. And sometimes we have to cause our candidates or applicants to consider it a bigger thing than their than they're considering it. But But I think it should be a significant thing. And so we want to make it look make it like that. And, and part of it is saying we're buying into you, I mean, the reason you are going through training orientation, and you're gonna schedule shifts for next week is because we believe in you and this is going to be rewarding and good. And, and we need you, you know, we do need you. Most people want to know that somebody believes in them and that they're seeing, yeah, I'm not meaning to be like all super soft about it, but but there tends to be human nature for the most part. Yeah. So do you consider yourself a typical entrepreneur, Andy? And what what is it typical entrepreneur versus? not typical? A typical? Okay. Well, I mean, I think in maybe it's the movies, who knows that the typical, like, profile stereotype of a entrepreneur is the guy that you know, he sold candy cane, or you sold lollipops, in the, in the playground when he was in elementary school, and made his first million. And then, you know, he had a paper out yet, and but he had 50 People below him, you know, pushing papers for him. And you know, that that kind of entrepreneur, like his whole life, he didn't have time to go to college, because, you know, he just, that was a waste of time. That's not me. And I already stated earlier that I didn't have, I'm a pioneer, and I didn't have someone to lean on. And, and in fact, I waited till I was, you know, mid 40s, before I stepped away from the corporate world, to open a business and but, um, you know, I learned so much through all of all, through all that process, that I feel like I can probably say, today, I'm an entrepreneur, but I didn't feel like I, you know, had enough experience and history to say that I could possibly I think today I can, is a title to some degree. But I'm in a typical, you know, in that role to answer your question. Well, obviously, you're a successful entrepreneur, if you've been in business for eight years. You sad, right? And especially weathering the last almost two years. I'm curious, how has owning a homecare agency impacted your life? Well, I'll say, I'm in such a good spot today. And it was, but I had to have three or four years of just really hard work, that, that it was motivating. And I was driven in that in those hard times. But they were hard. And, and I during those times, and good luck, Vincent, you'll be awesome. Reach out to me anytime. But during those times of grinding, that is just the first couple years, I say that there's this thing called the valley of despair, that helps you appreciate your success so much more. And so the value of despair is you just don't know. If you're going to make it and you really don't you just you just don't know if it's worth it. You're you're like in that valley of despair. And it's almost like it's a it's a part of the circle of success. And you're going to have to be there to some degree at some point. Unless you just go out and buy a business which I'll just tell you, kind of back to the entrepreneur. You know, I give credit to anybody that's an owner out there, but if you build a business from scratch, I give you a lot more money. In the guy that buys the business that's already knows, you know, three years of what the revenue looks like what the projections look like and what the owner gets, you're just, yes, you're spending money and taking risk, but you're just really trading salaries in my mind to the person that starts it from scratch. Today, I'd probably buy a business that started from scratch. But now you can be a mentor to people, because you've had to go through building all the infrastructure and going through that value of despair, as you said, what would your advice be to those owners out there that are fatigued, the independent homecare agency owners that are fatigued, feeling hopeless, feeling like their only option is to sell out at this point, right? What's your advice to them? Well, I think you have to look at business ownership, as you're trying to build an empire that you get to oversee and turn seems odd, like, it's, I don't know, I'm not trying to throw a bunch of light on the person or myself, but that you want to get to a point where people are doing the right things, because you're able to communicate your vision, and give them the right resources and tools and support and motivation. And you're able to just handle big things and see the big picture, and let them work hard at those things that, that you empower them to be able to do and, and, and, and give them a lot of trust. You know, like I, even someone that's new in our office, I'm gonna say, you know, you can present to me what you think is gonna be a solution. And I'm, and I'm great, I'm glad that you came up with it. And let's see how it's gonna go. And I'm okay with losing money on things like that, when they know that I trust them, to use their agency to make decisions and try to solve problems and see what we can do to get to the next level. So but your questions were about the people that are not at that level, but I just see yourself there. Yeah, what I'm describing is that it's your right, it's a lot of opportunity. A lot of clients need services. But as we've discussed, right, the shortage and staff and everything that's been going on, and owners have gotten even more fatigued. And there was for some there is this sense of hopelessness of when is it going to let up like, When am I going to have this? They're searching for relief, you know? And so what advice you have for those people, like what do you feel that they can do to keep moving forward versus feeling like their only option is to sell out to a franchise who is offering to purchase them, but yet, maybe they're not getting the amount of money that that they want for their agency, and they're feeling like I just invested 10 years of my life and my heart and soul into this agency, but I'm tired, and they feel like their only option is to sell out, what advice do you have for those people? Well, so, um, so there's a question of, why are they feeling, you know, burnout. And that's part of what I'm telling them in the the explanation of, can you get to a point where you can have the balance in your, in your work life, recreation, you know, I love to play golf, and I expect to play golf, you know, weekly, and I expect to ski during this winter time, weekly, and I just go make it happen. And so, but I got a wonderful family, and they occupied really the majority of my time, but I would be able to get there unless I had enough good people doing enough of the good stuff that keeps the business churning and going well. So um, and that's kind of this goal of the empire, that you're, you're managing a lot of that work that goes on from above, so, but if you can't get out of, you know, your foot has to be on the gas pedal, or nothing happens in the business, then I'm going to say if that's your, you know, the reason for your burnout. Because of your burnout, because caregivers are calling off shifts, and it's always a headache, you need people to do the solving of that problem, which isn't that you're going to eliminate caregivers calling off shifts, you just need to find a care manager that can schedule and not get all anxious and upset over that because that's just gonna happen. And so you just got to manage it. But it doesn't have to be the owner. It shouldn't be the owner. And so um and, and so if you can't get enough business, then I'm going to say this term mentor, there are great people that can help you do that. And and there's great organizations. I really don't know independent homecare Alliance well enough, but I I sense where they're going and I hope For, you know what they're gonna provide, but I, I think they're going to be a part of the mentoring that will provide solutions to people that are stuck because they can't get enough business. And, and so how do you get past that there's, and we have a lot of big announcements to make rolling into 2022 centered around this mentorship concept. So what I see a lot, right is that there's this, I call it treading of water, right? Just keep bandaid fixes, let's just keep going, when sometimes the best thing to do is to take a step back as the owner by pause, breathe. In the military, we call it you know, take a knee, drink water. But really analyze why does this keep happening? And where do we need to make a systematic change, right to actually fix the problem? Right. And that's where, you know, advising and adding education from the Alliance mentorship advice, right around that letting the owner owner know, look, just let your staff handle it for a moment, you take a step back, look at the whole situation, and let's come up with an actual viable solution to this versus just treading the water moving forward. Yeah, yeah. I think a lot of the people in our industry that can help, really, no matter what your problem is, there are solutions out there. Absolutely. So how can people get in touch with you please recap for the audience. What geographic territory loving home senior care covers, and how they can get in touch with you if they want to learn more about partnering with you. Maybe they're a potential referral source, or somebody that will hear this has aging loved ones that live in your operating territory, and they want to start being proactive about understanding care options, how can they reach you? So we cover as far as our service area, all of Spokane and the surrounding, you know, cities and areas, we do dabble a little bit in Idaho is that's not too far away. And so if you are on this as a potential referral source or another homecare agency, and there was something that I mentioned that you'd like to know more about, reach out to me directly find me on LinkedIn all tell you my phone number, which I don't know if that really matters right now, but 509-474-0663, but you can find me on LinkedIn, and or Facebook, are companies loving home senior care, or Instagram or any of the social worlds. And, and I I welcome that. Let's have conversations, let's see if there's something you know, that I've solved that might help you. So please look at that. Look at it that way. And then if you're seeking care, look at our reviews, get online, look at our website, look at our reviews on Google. And I think that every person that is in that decision making process of who would be someone we can trust and put our faith into come in and provide care for our loved ones. Get online and look at the reviews and then drop list of who you think you want to talk with. You know, I think three or four is good to talk with, and then call those instead of appointments. Mm hmm. Thank you, Andy, we have a comment. Christopher Zeid i i apologize, Christopher if I butchered your last name. He says great job Andy and Sarah always displaying the purpose of homecare when the owner displays his story, mission and love of serving their community to their team. It truly attracts the employees and clients to be a part of your environment. I could not agree more with that. I think that ultimately it all starts with the the ultimate why of why you have your agency and making sure that every employee knows the larger why and they have their personal life. Thank you, Christopher. Thank you crisper. And thank you so much for being our IHC a member moments guest today. As a reminder, my name is Sarah Barker. And with the independent homecare Alliance, we are a membership based organization purely for independent non franchise homecare agencies. Ultimately, we're leveling the playing field for the independent homecare agency owner when it comes to operating their businesses through things such as group purchasing power education, as well as mastermind groups, all sorts of things and we do this through four different offerings through the Alliance. So if you'd like to learn more about becoming an official member of the independent homecare Alliance, feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn or Facebook or you can reach me at Sarah Barker at I HCM solutions.com. Andy, thank you so much for being our guests. Today Thank you Sara I really appreciate it My pleasure